Dodge Block Armor

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causative
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Dodge Block Armor

Post by causative »

This describes a combat system based around Dodge, Block, and Armor.

OVERVIEW

Generally speaking, there are 3 stages to stopping an attack.

An attack may be dodged, unless the attack is too quick to dodge or unless the attack affects an area too large to get out of in time.

An attack may be blocked, unless the attack is too quick to block or unless the attack is so forceful that it can't be blocked (such as a giant's club). Attacks such as poison mist or buckshot may also be unblockable because of their diffuse nature.

An attack may be stopped by armor, unless the attack is accurate enough to find a chink in the armor, or unless the attack is capable of piercing the armor (such as an arbalest bolt or giant's club).

If the attack bypasses dodge, block, and armor, then it causes some wound to the defender which impairs their ability to fight.

Key defender stats include:
dodge - ability to quickly avoid a blow
block - ability to quickly intercept a blow
block force - capacity to intercept a very forceful blow
armor coverage - amount of body covered by armor
armor force - capacity to stop a very forceful blow with armor

Key attacker stats include:
quickness - ability to overcome dodge and block through speed
attack force - ability to overcome block or armor through brute force
accuracy - ability to find a chink in the armor

Other stats:
move - number of meters the character can move per round
injuries - number of injuries the character has taken

WHY?
This system is designed for realism and reasonable simplicity.

Realistically, the goal in combat is to avoid getting hit. If someone cuts your bare flesh with a knife, it doesn't matter whether you are a high level knight or a beginning mage; it cuts just as easily as if you were a ham. And if somebody uses a knife to cut an inch into your arm you are severely impaired because the muscle fibers no longer work. The Dodge-Block-Armor system is focused around avoiding blows, not taking damage.

The system was designed with three characters in mind.

The Rogue - Armed with daggers or a short sword, the rogue is good at dodging blows, but has difficulty blocking them and low armor.

The Knight - The knight is not able to dodge as easily as the rogue because he is encumbered by armor, but the knight has a shield and is excellent at blocking. The knight has a great advantage over the rogue; almost any blow the rogue tries bounces off the knight's armor, whereas almost any blow the knight manages to land with his huge longsword kills or incapacitates the rogue. The rogue's best option against the knight is to run away.

The Giant - this huge monster wields an enormous club which he swings with enough force to smash down walls. Armor is useless. If the knight tried to block the giant's club with his shield, the knight would simply break his arm and the club would crush him anyway. The only way to avoid the giant's club is to dodge it. Therefore, the rogue has an advantage over the knight when fighting the giant.

ROLLING THE ATTACK
To roll the attack, you determine the attacker's advantage for dodge, block, and armor, and roll three modified d10. The attacker needs to win all three rolls for his attack to injure the defender.

A modified d10 (referred to as md10 below) is a ten sided die with sides labeled -5 through +4.

When a stat A of the attacker stat challenges a stat B of the defender, first you calculate the difficulty modifier B - A. This should be easy to determine mentally (subtracting two numbers that are close to each other). If md10 is at least B - A, then the attacker wins and the attack passes that stage. Else, the defender wins and the attack is stopped entirely.

Instead of using a modified d10, you can use a regular d10 numbered 1-10. In this case, the attacker wins if d10 - 6 is at least B - A. A modified d10 is preferable because it removes the need to subtract 6.

To get past Dodge, the attacker's Quickness challenges the defender's Dodge. (roll md10)

To get past Block, the attacker's Quickness challenges the defender's Block (roll md10). Alternatively, if the attacker's Attack Force is greater than the defender's Block Force, the attack is automatically unblocked.

To get past Armor, the attacker's Accuracy challenges the defender's Armor Coverage (roll md10). Alternatively, if the attacker's Attack Force is greater than the defender's Armor Force, the attack automatically goes through the armor.

STAT GUIDELINES
The following guidelines are an example of a typical human fighter with a sword, buckler and leather armor.

Quickness 10
Attack Force 10
Accuracy 10
Dodge 6 (much less than Quickness)
Block 12 (greater than Quickness)
Block Force 15 (much greater than Attack Force)
Armor Coverage - varies widely
Armor Force 13 (greater than Attack Force)

It is faster for the attacker to move his weapon than it is for the defender to move his whole body. Dodge < Quickness

A competent defender will probably be able to block most attacks.

Parrying with a weapon is considered a kind of blocking and is factored into the Block stat.

Generally, it's very hard to use brute force to overcome your opponent's attempt to block. To block your attack he only has to deflect your weapon to the side which is relatively not a lot of effort on his part.

With a sword, it's usually difficult to pierce your opponent's armor; better to aim for an unarmored spot.

Armor Coverage increases if the defender carries a large shield (larger than a buckler). A large shield increases both Block and Armor Coverage.


INJURIES
Injuries represent serious damage to the character's body such as a stab wound or broken arm. A healthy character has 0 injuries. Most edged or pointed attacks deal 1 injury if they connect. Injuries penalize any active physical stat you have, including quickness, attack force, block, dodge, attack force, block force, accuracy, and move. If you are a human with 5 injuries, you are dead.

TACTICS
Tactics temporarily alter your stats during combat for one round. Only one tactic may be used per round. Characters need to learn tactics before they can use them. Each tactic a character knows has a certain level, which increases the possible effects of the tactic.

Caution: reduces Quickness but increases Dodge and Block by any amount up to the level of Caution.

Lunge: reduces both Block and Dodge but increases Quickness by any amount up to the level of Lunge

Careful Strike: reduces Quickness but increases Accuracy by any amount up to the level of Careful Strike

Fast Strike: reduces Accuracy but increases Quickness by any amount up to the level of Fast Strike

Brutal Strike: reduces Quickness but increases Attack Force by any amount up to the level of Brutal Strike

Half-sword Thrust: requires a longsword with mailed gauntlets. The combatant grips the sword with one hand on the pommel and one hand in the middle of the blade for greater control and thrusting force. Reduces the range to knife range, but increases the Attack Force and Accuracy by the level of Half-sword Thrust.

Ringen am Schwert: "Wrestling at the sword". Use wrestling tactics to unbalance your opponent, giving you a better opportunity for a Careful Strike or Half-sword Thrust later. This was an important technique in historical armored combat. To be determined.

MELEE RANGES
The ranges of melee weapons are as follows: Knife Range (1 meter, including length of arm), Sword Range (2 meters), Halberd Range (3 meters), Pike Range (4 meters).

If you have a knife and your enemy has a sword, the point of his weapon is closer to you than the point of your weapon is to him. This means he can hit you more quickly, as he does not have to move as far.

So, if you have a shorter-ranged melee weapon than your opponent, you take a Quickness Penalty of 2 for every increment of range your opponent has on you. You can eliminate this penalty by successfully moving to a closer range (see below).


COMBAT ROUNDS
Combat proceeds in rounds, each round lasting about a second. Rounds are divided into phases.

At the start of each phase, players signal if they would like to perform an action appropriate to the phase. It shouldn't matter very much which order they choose their action, but the player who signals first may state his action first. Once an action is chosen he may not change his decision until a later phase of the round.

Phase 1: Players declare a "slow action."

Running somewhere is a slow action - towards or away from an enemy, or simply maneuvering on the battlefield. Each player may try to move a number of meters equal to their Move. If an enemy is running away, a player may then give chase to stay nearby. If an enemy is advancing, a player may try to back up. However, most combatants can only back up half of the distance they can advance, so backing up will not thwart an enemy who is trying to advance to closer melee range.

Notching a bow or casting a brief spoken spell also counts as a slow action. Multi-round actions, such as casting a longer spell or loading a crossbow, consist of several slow actions that must be performed without interruption in several consecutive rounds.

Slow actions will not actually finish until the end of the round, and they may be interrupted before then.

It is possible to declare more than one slow action at once if they are compatible - running and notching a bow, for instance.

Phase 2: Players declare who they will attack with a melee weapon or a bow that was notched in a previous round. It is possible to declare both a slow action such as running and an attack in the same round, provided the two actions do not interfere with each other.

To attack someone, either the target must be within range at the start of the round, or else the target must come into your range through planned movement this round. Knife range weapons can be used to attack someone at Knife Range or Sword Range. Sword range weapons can be used to attack someone at Knife Range, Sword Range, or Halberd Range. Halberd range weapons can be used to attack someone at Sword Range, Halberd Range, or Pike Range. Pike-range weapons can be used to attack someone at Halberd Range or Pike Range.

Phase 3: Players declare any Tactics they would like to use.

Phase 4: Attacks resolve in decreasing order of Quickness. If two attacks have the same Quickness, the one that was declared first resolves first. Attacks may interrupt slow actions.

Dodging, blocking an attack, or being injured interrupts slow actions that require the player to remain stationary. Examples: pulling a lever or looting a body.

Note: A player may choose not to dodge and/or block to avoid interrupting his slow action. This must be chosen as a Tactic.

Blocking an attack or being injured interrupts slow actions such as casting a spell or notching a bow.

If a player declared they were moving towards a melee opponent as a slow action, but they block this opponent's attack or are injured, then they are prevented from moving any closer.

If you tried to attack someone who you expected would come into your range this round, but that person was interrupted before they did so, then your attack is canceled.

Phase 5: Slow actions resolve in the order they were declared (provided they were not canceled in phase 4).

If any players are still fighting, now the next combat round begins.

LONG RANGED WEAPONS

A long-ranged weapon's Accuracy is for a moving target 10 meters away.
For every 1 meter closer than 10 meters, the Accuracy increases by 1 point.
For every 2 meters farther than 10 meters, the Accuracy decreases by 1 point.
At 20 meters, the Accuracy penalty is 5.
For every 4 meters farther than 20 meters, the Accuracy decreases by 1 point.
At 40 meters, the Accuracy penalty is 10.
For every 8 meters farther than 40 meters, the Accuracy decreases by 1 point.

Weapons that are accurate at long ranges simply have a very high Accuracy; a rifle with an Accuracy of 30 or 40 is reasonable. It would have a low Quickness when aimed with maximum accuracy, however.

As a rule, ranged weapons are easier to dodge than to block. It is far easier to leap out of the way of an arrow when you see a bow pointed at you than it is to block the arrow with your sword or shield. Ranged weapons therefore have an "Anti-Block" stat which is added to Quickness when the defender blocks, but not when he dodges.

Ranged weapons that pierce armor with their Attack Force do not automatically hit. Instead, this reduces Armor Coverage to a minimum that reflects the difficulty of hitting an unarmored target:

Code: Select all

Body Size          Minimum Armor Coverage
small &#40;child&#41;      7
average human      5
Ogre-sized         3
Having reduced Armor Coverage, the ranged weapon must win a fourth d10 roll of Accuracy against the reduced Armor Coverage in order to hit. If the ranged weapon fails this fourth roll, that means it missed the defender's body entirely.

Ranged weapons must be loaded before they can be fired. This is a slow action that takes at least one round to do (depending on the weapon).

EXAMPLE CHARACTERS

The Unarmored Rogue with dagger and sword
Quickness 11
Attack Force 10
Accuracy 10
Dodge 8
Block 10
Block Force 13
Armor Coverage 5
Armor Force 5 (cloth)

The Knight in Plate Mail with broadsword and shield
Quickness 10
Attack Force 12
Accuracy 10
Dodge 6
Block 13
Block Force 15
Armor Coverage 14
Armor Force 16

The Unarmored Giant with his Club
Quickness 5
Attack Force 25
Accuracy 6
Dodge 0
Block 5
Block Force 30
Armor Coverage 3
Armor Force 5 (cloth)

The Giant can take 10 injuries before death, and it takes 2 injuries to impair his physical stats. The Giant deals 2 injuries with his club.

Knight hits Rogue
Advantages: 2 against Dodge, 0 against Block, 5 against Armor
Probability of hit: 0.7 * 0.5 * 1 = 0.35

Rogue hits Knight
Advantages: 5 against Dodge, -2 against Block, -3 against Armor
Probability of hit: 1 * 0.3 * 0.2 = 0.06

So the Knight has a far better chance at hitting the Rogue. That rogue ought to run.

Giant hits Knight:
Advantages: -1 against Dodge, too much force for Block, too much force for Armor
Probability of hit: 0.4 * 1 * 1 = 0.4

Giant hits Rogue:
Advantages: -3 against Dodge, too much force for Block, too much force for Armor
Probability of hit: 0.2 * 1 * 1 = 0.2

So the Giant is twice as dangerous to the Knight as he is to the Rogue.

Knight hits Ogre (same for Rogue):
Advantages: 10 against Dodge, 5 against Block, 7 against Armor
Probability of hit: 1.0[/code]
Last edited by causative on Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:22 am, edited 13 times in total.
fectin
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Post by fectin »

I think that I start tossing acid flasks and poison gases, because none of your defenses stop them.
Failing that, "quickness" apparently bypasses both active defenses, and (based on your realism goal) probably goes well with an armor-bypassing weapon like a stiletto.

Incidentally, your "realism" of slow, ponderous knights is complete propaganda (though 3 century old propaganda).
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Post by causative »

fectin wrote:I think that I start tossing acid flasks and poison gases, because none of your defenses stop them.
Powerful weapons, provided you can afford them. Armor could mitigate damage from such things because it reduces exposed skin area, though it wouldn't prevent lung damage. Poison takes some time to work, however, so your opponent might run over and kill you in the meantime.

In World War I poison gas was generally used against an enemy formation in low-lying territory rather than an individual enemy.
Failing that, "quickness" apparently bypasses both active defenses, and (based on your realism goal) probably goes well with an armor-bypassing weapon like a stiletto.
I wouldn't necessarily say a stiletto bypasses armor. A stiletto is not capable of penetrating steel plate. Being short and pointy, a stiletto might have high accuracy in the right hands and could therefore find chinks in the armor. However, when inserted between the armor in such a careful manner the attack would usually have low quickness and could be blocked if the enemy is at full strength. Knights generally used daggers to finish off opposing knights only after they had knocked the enemy down and/or disarmed him.

On the other hand, you could wield the stiletto with high quickness, stabbing wildly at your opponent, but then you would have lower accuracy and you wouldn't be able to strike the small gaps in the armor of a knight (armpit, groin, or through the visor). However, this strategy could be effective against a less armored enemy.
Incidentally, your "realism" of slow, ponderous knights is complete propaganda (though 3 century old propaganda).
Knights are the ultimate melee combatant against human-size opponents. They have to be quick on their feet to manage that, but they are still slower than an unarmored rogue. They are wearing 50 pounds of armor plus the greater weight of their weapon and shield; they have to be somewhat slower.
Last edited by causative on Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:28 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by OgreBattle »

The amount of armor you are wearing has a big impact on how mobile you are. Look at the NFL, players are often reluctant to wear any additional padding other than helmet and shoulders because they know it slows them down.
Here's an article about it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/06/sport ... .html?_r=0

"But professional football players — mainly receivers and defensive backs who rely on quickness, but some linemen, too — have a finely tuned sense of their bodies and are convinced that even plastic shells less than a quarter-inch thick and a few inches wide encumber them."

and the difference between a linebacker and a running back's level of padding is still way less than a guy covered in metal vs one that's not.

Even in the era of plate armor, there are accounts of knights in sporting duels who wore less armor so they could move around better.

So in the context of dodging a giant's club, yeah a fully armored knight getting whacked easier than a naked guy makes sense.
Last edited by OgreBattle on Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by fectin »

Not really. It's fine as a rock-paper-scissors style game, but pretending that there was a big enough difference in reaction speed to make RPS work is pure fantasy.

As a quick calibration, how heavy do you think a broadsword was?
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Post by causative »

Yeah the broadsword is only a couple pounds, but every pound counts when it has leverage on the end of your arm. How about 50 pounds of armor? Imagine how encumbered you would be if you were wearing a 50 pound backpack (five supermarket sacks of potatos). A knight would be more agile than that due to his strength and training, but it still makes a difference. Also, the knight is likely to be a stronger, heavier combatant than the rogue; body weight makes a difference for agility.

Anyway the intent is not to have a rock-paper-scissors type of game. The giant would probably have the advantage against either a lone knight or a lone rogue, unless they are exceptionally skilled. The basic concept is that if you want to engage huge monsters in melee what you need is more dodge, and not so much armor.

Knights can move fast, no question. Rogues are just faster.
Last edited by causative on Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Miryafa »

I would say add some numbers and examples. If it works and is simpler than 3.5, I'd be inclined to use it. Otherwise not so much.
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Post by Corsair114 »

Sounds like you'd always be in the best position as the Rogue, especially of you picked up a good crossbow, or bow with the appropriate arrows, giving you the ability to avoid any melee confrontation while still having the firepower necessary to deal with anything you come across.

This presupposes there will be a way to acquire ranged weapons.
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Post by violence in the media »

What is blocking supposed to represent? Is it someone flailing ineffectually against your steel-clad hide? Intercepting a strike with a shield or weapon? Diverting a strike with a weapon or limb (think a fencer's parry or an empty-handed deflection)? All three?

Also, who rolls first and determines the engagement? If you elect to try and beat my dodge and block with your quickness, can I just make you test against my armor coverage or armor force (which quickness doesn't seem to be set up to defeat)? If you roll accuracy, what's my advantage to using one defense over another?
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Post by causative »

Miryafa wrote:I would say add some numbers and examples. If it works and is simpler than 3.5, I'd be inclined to use it. Otherwise not so much.
I have updated my first post with more information. At the end you can see example stats for our Knight, Rogue, and Giant.

My goal is for it to be reasonably simple, but primarily that it is more realistic. I make no claim that it is simpler than 3.5. I'd like it to be considered for the different tactics and realistic character types it allows, rather than purely on simplicity.

Also, please keep in mind that it is a work in progress. I welcome suggestions to make it better :thumb:
Sounds like you'd always be in the best position as the Rogue, especially of you picked up a good crossbow, or bow with the appropriate arrows, giving you the ability to avoid any melee confrontation while still having the firepower necessary to deal with anything you come across.
A Rogue who also has a crossbow would certainly be in a good position, but it depends on the nature of the campaign and the enemies you will be fighting. If you are in a dungeon fighting many human-sized enemies in small rooms at close range, you'd rather be a Knight. There are good historical reasons why Knights were considered superior; swords and arrows tend to bounce off them.
This presupposes there will be a way to acquire ranged weapons.
Yes, you can, though to be honest the system is designed with melee combat first in mind.
What is blocking supposed to represent? Is it someone flailing ineffectually against your steel-clad hide?
No, that's Armor.
Intercepting a strike with a shield or weapon?
Yep.
Diverting a strike with a weapon
Yep.
or limb (think ... an empty-handed deflection)?
Possibly. If the character is trained with empty-handed deflection that could increase his Block stat.
Also, who rolls first and determines the engagement? If you elect to try and beat my dodge and block with your quickness, can I just make you test against my armor coverage or armor force (which quickness doesn't seem to be set up to defeat)? If you roll accuracy, what's my advantage to using one defense over another?
Normally, you try all 3 defenses against every attack. You can use Tactics to influence the character's choice, though. The information I added to the first post (see the section on Rolling the Attack) should clarify this.
Last edited by causative on Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:07 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Post by Foxwarrior »

Well, you've got the THAC0 problem. Instead of rolling d10 and comparing it to 6 - A, where A is Quickness - Dodge, you should add 6 to Dodge and compare d10 + Quickness to Dodge.

Even then, this is definitely more complicated than rolling to hit, checking for crits or misses, then rolling for damage.

Having to decide whether to use Attack Force or Accuracy with every attack seems pointlessly complicated; I feel that you could get a similar amount of your vaunted realism by just making the Attack Force thing be a simple check (if Attack Force > Block Force then skip Block, else roll Quickness vs Block).
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Post by causative »

Foxwarrior wrote:Well, you've got the THAC0 problem. Instead of rolling d10 and comparing it to 6 - A, where A is Quickness - Dodge, you should add 6 to Dodge and compare d10 + Quickness to Dodge.
You mean, add 6 to all the defensive stats? If I did that then it would seem harder to compare the stats. The way it is, if Quickness is 10 and Dodge is 6, I know there's a +4 advantage for the attacker so the defender is unlikely to dodge. If Quickness is 10 and Dodge is 12 (defensive stat increased by 6) it's not so obvious that Quickness is the stronger stat.

I wonder if there exists a d10 that is labeled -4 to +5. That way you could roll d10 and compare it directly to Quickness - Dodge (without the adjustment by 6); if d10 > Dodge - Quickness the attack goes through, else it fails. What do you think - would a d10 like that help?

Personally I find subtraction of numbers that are close to each other easier than addition. 16 - 13 = 3, the answer is 1 digit. 16 + 13 = 29 and I need to think a little more for that. Maybe that's just me. (Is it just me?)

Does anybody else have opinions on this subject?
Even then, this is definitely more complicated than rolling to hit, checking for crits or misses, then rolling for damage.

Having to decide whether to use Attack Force or Accuracy with every attack seems pointlessly complicated; I feel that you could get a similar amount of your vaunted realism by just making the Attack Force thing be a simple check (if Attack Force > Block Force then skip Block, else roll Quickness vs Block).
Yes, maybe that is better.
Last edited by causative on Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by fectin »

Local consensus is that addition is generally faster than subtraction. There may be some edge cases where that's not true.
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Post by Foxwarrior »

I may have been overreacting to the part where you phrased it as a double subtraction for some reason. Setting it up so that the number you're comparing it to multiplied by 10 is your percentile chance of success would be worth something, if you want to go that route. In that case, roll 1d10, you hit if it's equal to or less than Quickness - Dodge, and you should add 5 to Quickness.
Last edited by Foxwarrior on Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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